No Limit/Pot Limit Strategy Discussion: Preflop Raising, But Why?

so you're saying that when you raise pre-flop and get a call from a player who likes to limp, but will only call a raise with a strong hand, you haven't gathered good information preflop?

one of my favorite situations in poker is being in the bb with a hand like 22, or 33 and having a bunch of limpers in front of me. i privately thank them for the chance for not raising the pot and allowing me a free look to see if i can hit a set. if the guy with AQ had raised pre-flop, i would have been out of the hand. how is weeding out weak hands pre-flop not profitable?

i'm not familiar with the term open-raising, so i might be missing your point.

I'm not doubting this at all. I'm not against raising. All I'm saying is, are we really sure about the strength of our hand, when we only see 2 of the 5 cards in it? It's about PREFLOP raising, not raising in general. I completely agree with everything that says.

When I gave the 2/3 A/K example, I meant that my 2 is just as likely to hit as your K. I didn't mean both cards would hit. I'm talking in a hypothetical heads-up situation. Obviously I'd fold bottom pair.

In earlier posts, people mentioned putting your opponents on hands. Granted, I wouldn't be able to tell what strength hand they're holding, but at least I'd be able to see a flop cheaply to improve on my hand. How many times have we folded 6/8o only to see the flop 6 8 A, and someone with Ace nothing make a donk bet? It's disheartening. Again, I was talking about preflop limping to disguise your strength and minimize your losses.

This is in the strategy section, hence it's a strategy, not a new rule I want to implement where people can only limp or fold preflop. I'm basing this strategy on the observation that people who play the game to the river and have raised preflop lose 7 out of 10 times. Yes, you can get people to fold with your c-bets and what-not, but I'm sure a pot played to the river would be bigger than a small pot at the flop.

Im sorry if this has been mentioned already I only skimmed through the thread but one reason for raising that I didn’t see is for control of the pot. The person with the betting lead will take down most pots. For instance, I play mostly 6 max cash games, and say there is a raise from 2 off the off the button and I hold AJ suited of unsuited it doesn’t matter. Unless the player is really tight im going to raise him. The raise accomplishes a few things; I put my opponent on the defensive, and I have taken control of the hand. If my opponent is a normal player he can have a wide range here.

The only hands im really worried about are the pairs JJ or better, and if he does have JJ or even QQ I have made it difficult to play the hand correctly. He could make another raise which will likely put most of his stack in if not all. The problem with that is if I have AA or KK he is getting stacked and if I have anything else im going to let it go and he wins a relatively small pot. If he has AK or AQ both of us are going to miss the flop most of the time but because I took control before the flop I can take down the pot with a bet on the flop. The same work with open raising, most of the time if you get called a c-bet will take down the pot. Sorry for the lengthy post but I hope someone gets something out of it.

Actually, I'd say that this is rarely a reason to raise pre-flop at all. The different reasons for raising vary a great deal depending on stack sizes, your opponents and other circumstances. For example, in a relatively short stacked game with unobservant opponents, raising for deception or to sweeten the pot with a speculative hand is often a bad idea. Raising for value with your big hands, and possibly to steal the blinds with some not so good hands, will usually be what wins you money in a game like this.

id rather win a small pot on the flop than no pot at all. and i would rather win the blinds than lose. thats why you raise preflop.

You still win because you're going to c-bet, and since this guy isn't a donkey (which is obvious because he's observed 100 hands... ), he's going to fold bottom pair.

this is the only part i will address for now. the stupidity of this comment just grabbed me and demanded a response. the reason i will raise with my AK is because i can hit one card and i have a hand. i can do the same with 23 i suppose. but if i hit my king and you hit your 3 whos gonna win? if i hit my A and you hit your 3 who wins? if i hit and you miss who wins? if i hit both and you hit both who wins? if neither of us hits anything who wins? if you hit and i dont you win. you win one out of all those scenarios.

raising pre-flop to narrow down your opponent's range of hands in any situation besides a short stacked game is almost always a good idea. i fail to see your logic.

Open-raising=raising when you're the first to enter a pot. Seriously though, who folds a PP to a single pre-flop raise unless it's a tournament with shallow stacks where raising for information is far from the most important aspect anyway? I'm not talking about raising vs a nit who only plays JJ+, AK for a raise, I'm talking about playing about most normal players, both god and bad. In a cash game with normal stacks, unless you're raising in EP and get a caller just a seat or two behind you, most callers will have pretty wide ranges. Even raising UTG and getting called by a tight player UTG+1 will usually leave you with at least any PP and AK, and that's the most information you can pretty much ever hope for.