No Limit/Pot Limit Strategy Discussion: World Series of Poker Payouts

I really dislike the payouts here. 2000 entries in the $1500 NL event,

top 200 get paid. I don't mind the top 10% getting paid, and if I were

in charge I would actually pay more spots.

What I don't like is structure of their payout ladder. My guess is

they are doing it for simplicity.

171 through 200 paid the same amount, $1,945

Next 30 spots paid $2,220

Next 30 spots paid $2,500

$2,780 for the next 9

$3,055 for the next 9

$3,470 for the next 9

$4,165 for the next 9

$4,860 for 64-72

$5,555 for 55-63

$6,530 for 46-54

$8,055 for 37-45

$9,725 for 28-36

$13,890 for 19-27

Here's the payout once you make the final two tables:

1 $611,145

2 $329,975

3 $202,790

4 $175,010

5 $147,230

6 $119,450

7 $91,670

8 $63,895

9 $47,225

10 $30,555

11 $30,555

12 $30,555

13 $25,000

14 $25,000

15 $25,000

16 $19,445

17 $19,445

18 $19,445

I think there are three groups of tournament players that can live in

harmony. Dead money, who is here to have fun (or they think they are

here to make money), EV Maximizers (who are here for the money), and

Players who want to win at all-costs (PWWTWAC).

The EV Maximizers gain money (by definition) from the PWWTWAC, who go

broke in situations that hurt their tournament equity in order to

maximize their chance of winning. This is fine for both groups. The

PWWTWAC's want the bracelets, endorsements, and camera time, the EV

maximizers want the money. Both come out ahead due to the Dead Money

group, and everyone is happy.

The structure in place really forces the EV Maximizers to play for the

win at many times throughout the tournament. Once you make the money

(or even if you are 100 spots away from the money), the correct

strategy is usually to gamble, because the ladder doesn't really move

up anyway.

Imagine you make the money with a stack that is about half the average,

but you are still comfortable with the blinds and antes (let's say you

have 20 big blinds). You don't get another pay jump unless you

outlasts 30 people, so you can't let yourself blind away. If you

manage to break even during the level, you will hit a very slight pay

jump, and you will again be at a point where you have to wait another

30 spots for any incentive, so you'll need to gamble there. Once you

make the money, you are really forced to try and build a stack. But in

a tournament, you should only be forced to gamble by the blinds, never

by the payout. The payout should have an incentive built in for

survival, so the grinders gain at the expense of most of the gamblers,

and so that a few of the gamblers can steal their way to the chip lead.

I just don't any incentive here.

It is ok if finisher number 2000 gets paid the same amount as finisher

201, that is a fact of tournament poker. But there is no way that

finisher 171 should get paid as much as 200, and no way spot 100 should

pay in the same neighborhood as spot 200.

Here is the WamplerR modification on this 200 person payout. I'm not

going to put a ton of time into it, so the numbers might not add up

completely, but it's my generality of an ideal payout. There

definately are no blocks of 30 spots getting the same payout. Every

time a player is eliminated, a player that survives should gain (or be

very close to gaining).

Starting from the top:

Old payout:

1 $611,145

2 $329,975

3 $202,790

4 $175,010

5 $147,230

6 $119,450

7 $91,670

8 $63,895

9 $47,225

New payout:

1 $500,000

2 $300,000

3 $185,000

4 $155,000

5 $125,000

6 $100,000

7 $80,000

8 $65,000

9 $50,000

Think about it like this. Imagine all nine players started with even

chips. If ninth gets $50k, and first is about 8 times more difficult

to achieve than last, should first really get paid 13 times as much?

Half the time, I expect to make the top 5, so fifth should pay about

twice as much as 9th.

Old payout:

10 $30,555

11 $30,555

12 $30,555

13 $25,000

14 $25,000

15 $25,000

16 $19,445

17 $19,445

18 $19,445

New payout:

10 $32,000

11 $30,000

12 $28,000

13 $26,000

14 $24,000

15 $22,000

16 $20,000

17 $18,000

18 $16,000

Crazy to be this deep in the tournament, and not to gain each time a

player is eliminated. The top 18 is getting paid about $238k less

under my payout.

Now starting from the bottom.

Old payout:

171 through 200 paid the same amount, $1,945

Next 30 spots paid $2,220

Next 30 spots paid $2,500

$2,780 for the next 9

$3,055 for the next 9

$3,470 for the next 9

$4,165 for the next 9

$4,860 for 64-72

$5,555 for 55-63

$6,530 for 46-54

$8,055 for 37-45

$9,725 for 28-36

$13,890 for 19-27

I don't mind paying a block of 10 people the same amount for 101-200,

but blocks of 30 people are crazy. So I would just take some averages

and make linear increases every 10 spots.

191-200 $2,000

181-190 $2,100

171-180 $2,200

161-170 $2,300

151-160 $2,450

141-150 $2,600

131-140 $2,750

121-130 $3,000

111-120 $3,250

101-110 $3,500

The old system paid $228k out to these 100 spots, my system pays $262k.

Now for 100 up until the final two tables.

Old system:

$3,055 for 100-91

$3,470 for 90-82

$4,165 for 73-81

$4,860 for 64-72

$5,555 for 55-63

$6,530 for 46-54

$8,055 for 37-45

$9,725 for 28-36

$13,890 for 19-27

New system:

100 $3,550

99 $3,600

98 $3,650

97 $3,700

96 $3,750

95 $3,800

94 $3,850

93 $3,900

92 $3,950

91 $4,000

90 $4,050

89 $4,100

88 $4,150

87 $4,200

86 $4,250

85 $4,300

84 $4,350

83 $4,400

82 $4,450

81 $4,500

80 $4,550

79 $4,600

78 $4,650

77 $4,700

76 $4,750

75 $4,800

74 $4,850

73 $4,900

72 $4,950

71 $5,000

70 $5,100

69 $5,200

68 $5,300

67 $5,400

66 $5,500

65 $5,600

64 $5,700

63 $5,800

62 $5,900

61 $6,000

60 $6,100

59 $6,200

58 $6,300

57 $6,400

56 $6,500

55 $6,600

54 $6,700

53 $6,800

52 $6,900

51 $7,000

50 $7,150

49 $7,300

48 $7,450

47 $7,600

46 $7,750

45 $7,900

44 $8,050

43 $8,200

42 $8,350

41 $8,500

40 $8,700

39 $8,900

38 $9,100

37 $9,300

36 $9,500

35 $9,700

34 $9,900

33 $10,100

32 $10,300

31 $10,500

30 $10,700

29 $10,900

28 $11,100

27 $11,400

26 $11,700

25 $12,000

24 $12,400

23 $12,800

22 $13,200

21 $13,700

20 $14,200

19 $15,000

Old system paid out $534k to these spots, my system pays $573k.

My payout still has about $165k to give out, but I don't feel like

changing any numbers. Maybe give it to the top 3, or maybe pay an

extra 50 people with it.

Either way, I'm willing to bet that a random sample of 50 WSOP players

would vote for my payout over the payout that actually occurred. I

should note, that I don't dislike Harrah's payout as badly as I've

disliked many payouts in the past, so I think they are on the right

track.

I think that the present payout structure for the top ten percent of the field is correct and flattened enough...