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    •  
      CommentAuthorKykyPuky
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2007
     

    Here is the hand:

    Game #4693606682: $100 Canada Freeroll (35515525), Table 212 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:54:34 ET - 2007/12/31

    Seat 1: emeraldstorm (115), is sitting out

    Seat 2: Ripya (17,856)

    Seat 3: KykyPuky (8,335)

    Seat 4: superblue18 (390), is sitting out

    Seat 5: helen2222 (535), is sitting out

    Seat 6: Ty8829 (65), is sitting out

    Seat 7: caper444 (11,345)

    Seat 8: fouronthefloor (2,227), is sitting out

    Seat 9: zappa58858 (475), is sitting out

    helen2222 posts the small blind of 80

    Ty8829 posts the big blind of 65, and is all in

    The button is in seat #4

    *** HOLE CARDS ***

    Dealt to KykyPuky [8d 8s]

    caper444 has 15 seconds left to act

    caper444 folds

    fouronthefloor folds

    zappa58858 folds

    emeraldstorm folds

    Ripya raises to 465

    KykyPuky calls 465

    superblue18 folds

    helen2222 folds

    *** FLOP *** [3h 6c 4d]

    Ripya bets 800

    KykyPuky raises to 3,475

    Ripya raises to 17,391, and is all in

    KykyPuky calls 4,395, and is all in

    Ripya shows [8c 7c]

    KykyPuky shows [8d 8s]

    Ty8829 shows [5h 5d]

    Uncalled bet of 9,521 returned to Ripya

    *** TURN *** [3h 6c 4d] [3c]

    *** RIVER *** [3h 6c 4d 3c] [5s]

    Ripya shows a straight, Eight high

    KykyPuky shows two pair, Eights and Threes

    Ripya wins the side pot (16,555) with a straight, Eight high

    Ty8829 shows a full house, Fives full of Threes

    Ty8829 wins the main pot (260) with a full house, Fives full of Threes

    KykyPuky stands up

    *** SUMMARY ***

    Total pot 16,815 Main pot 260. Side pot 16,555. | Rake 0

    Board: [3h 6c 4d 3c 5s]

    Seat 1: emeraldstorm didn't bet (folded)

    Seat 2: Ripya showed [8c 7c] and won (16,555) with a straight, Eight high

    Seat 3: KykyPuky showed [8d 8s] and lost with two pair, Eights and Threes

    Seat 4: superblue18 (button) didn't bet (folded)

    Seat 5: helen2222 (small blind) folded before the Flop

    Seat 6: Ty8829 (big blind) showed [5h 5d] and won (260) with a full house, Fives full of Threes

    Seat 7: caper444 didn't bet (folded)

    Seat 8: fouronthefloor didn't bet (folded)

    Seat 9: zappa58858 didn't bet (folded)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now, the question is: what did I do wrong?

    What should've I done to avoid the turmoil?

    This is how i got booted out for tens and tens of times. !!

    I can't believe that just because they have bigger stack anybody can raise ALL IN on a draw that has odds 10:1!??

    Thank you.

    •  
      CommentAuthorFoxy_Boxer
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2007
     

    The only things you can do to reduce the bad beats are A) play tighter and B) raise bigger when you think you have the best hand. Tight is right, but tighter isn't necessarily righter. I don't know your current standards, so I can't advise you on that.

    As for raising bigger, you can raise big pre-flop and get marginal hands that might outdraw you to fold, but that also means you'll usually be facing stronger hands when you actually see a flop. That might be bad because you make money in by playing against inferior hands, but it will reduce the bad beats and you will usually have a better idea of what your opponents actually hold.

    If you still want to play the same pre-flop, you can bet or raise big (size of pot or larger) post-flop to get weak hands/draws to fold. People won't give you their money as often, but they'll also deliver fewer bad beats. They also won't bluff you as often. If you go all-in first, they can't try to bluff you. One thing to remember though: the bigger you bet, the fewer decisions you'll have to make later.

    Hoyt Corkins, Lee Watkinson, and Lee Nelson (all big tournament winners) frequently use this strategy. However, they also bet big when they're bluffing, so you'll need to be prepared to do that as well or run the risk of being extremely easy to read.

    Every strategy has pros and cons, but if reducing bad beats is what you want, this is how you do it. Unless you just want to fold whenever you think someone is weak or bluffing.

  1. 728x890_us
  2.  

    Nothing or everything. Sort of depends on what you thought villain was holding/betting with. If you thought they were on a bluff or two overs you get all the money in and don't look back.

    If you thought that they had a bigger pocket pair you played it terribly.

    If you didn't think about villain's hand at all you played it terribly.

    It isn't clear as we don't know what you were thinking and why you played it the way you did.

    Generally you cannot avoid the turmoil entirely--it is after all.

    While the full house may have been improbable, villain had an open ended straight draw on the flop so he had 8 outs twice plus his 2 5's for a set so he was about 40% to improve and win.

    •  
      CommentAuthorFoxy_Boxer
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2008
     

    I think he was looking at the shortstacked all-in guy's hand (pocket 5s) for those odds. However, if you want to TRY to rationalize the villain's move, he might have figured he had 10 outs to win as well: inside straight draw (4 outs) + 2 overcards to pair (6 outs); not to mention he wins if you fold. In reality of course, he only had 2 outs to win and he hit one of them. It's ridiculous to the point of being comical. Just try not to pull your hair out over this kind of thing. You'd have forgotten the hand completely if the cards fell like they will 88% of the time. It's the 12% that stings.

  3.  

    The only advice given in this situation is "nice hand" nothing else you could do.

    •  
      CommentAuthorKykyPuky
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2008
     

    Ya, it's around 9%.

    My biggest concern and question here is that I think that except bad beat option I fuigured it all right. Since that bad beat occurs to me very often and almost always 80% + of the bad beat time happaning the same way and again THE SAME WAY! (the guy with 9% chance to improve at the flop reraising me with his ALL-IN, and won on the river! Maybe the way I play makes them believe that I was bluffing??), got frustrated about it.

    So, now i'd like to share it with other players to see where is the room for improvement there. Because i believe there is something I must do.

    1. Play it more tight?

    2. Beware of loose agressive players?

    3. Beware of the stack larger than mine?

    4. All of these three?

    I understand that this is a . And bad beats are normal, but if they occur too often at the same way, then there must be a pattern. The pattern I want to learn about and eliminate.

    •  
      CommentAuthorPokerAA
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2008
     

  4.  

    I was looking at the villain with 55, who was in pretty good shape.

    17% would be closer to 6:1 -- 10.8:1 would be around 9%

    •  
      CommentAuthorKykyPuky
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2008
     

    Good analysys. Thanks.

  5.  

    Ripya played like an a-hole, he expected two big unpaired hole cards in your hand and figured you were on a bluff, that simple.

    •  
      CommentAuthorcubbies760
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2008
     

    Your opponent played this hand like he did because it's a freeroll. That's it.

    IMO, you really cannot adjust your play too much to compensate for this. Shjt's gonna happen because of the nature of a freeroll.

    •  
      CommentAuthorKykyPuky
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2008
     

    Ok, Thanks for the reply.

    First i wasn't warrying about seat 6, Ty8829 (65), is sitting out , because of the obvious reason.

    Second, my only focus was Ripya, because he had bigger stack, and because I knew he was bluffing with his $800 bets. That's why I raised to

    3,475 to scare him off. But when he went all-In, I fugired that i got already pot commited, so there would be better to call rather than fold and throw the best hand at the time. Because I also had my odds too. I admit that after Ripya bet all-in I didn't think much about his hand.

    How did you figure that villain had 40% chance to improve his hand after the flop? With flop 3h6c4d and his hole cards 8c7c, he had 10.8:1 or 17% to improve his hand aftre the flop.

    And yes, i agree with the other comment that it was free roll!!