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Razz: Why reraise?

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  1.  
  1.  

    Maybe someone can help me with this one.

    Why do people reraise in razz after 3rd or 4th St.? This even happens when the reraiser does not have the best up cards. Is there a strategy to this?

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      CommentAuthorSaint Cad
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2005
     

    Good reraise on 6th

    He was not a good player, that 4-4-K killed his hand and is worse than your K-J-2. It's this sort of hand that I would love to see played as no limit (OK, maybe pot limit).

  3. 728x890_us
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      CommentAuthorjbrennen
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2005
     

    Here's a hand from earlier tonight:

    Full Tilt Poker Game #344876425: Table Edna - $0.50/$1 Ante $0.10 - Limit Razz - 2:57:40 ET - 2005/12/20

    Seat 1: Bownser ($28.35)

    Seat 2: Yossarian57 ($44.90)

    Seat 3: noel926 ($20.20)

    Seat 4: jbrennen ($35.45)

    Seat 5: XMan90 ($25.30)

    Seat 6: Defriender ($6.35)

    Seat 7: gilmanc ($23.35)

    Seat 8: Zydrounas ($10.20)

    Bownser antes $0.10

    Zydrounas antes $0.10

    Yossarian57 antes $0.10

    jbrennen antes $0.10

    gilmanc antes $0.10

    Defriender antes $0.10

    noel926 antes $0.10

    XMan90 antes $0.10

    *** 3RD STREET ***

    Dealt to Bownser [3d]

    Dealt to Yossarian57 [2s]

    Dealt to noel926 [9h]

    Dealt to jbrennen [8d Ac] [7c]

    Dealt to XMan90 [5d]

    Dealt to Defriender [Qc]

    Dealt to gilmanc [8s]

    Dealt to Zydrounas [As]

    Defriender is high with [Qc]

    Defriender brings in for $0.15

    gilmanc folds

    Zydrounas completes it to $0.50

    Bownser folds

    Yossarian57 folds

    noel926 folds

    jbrennen calls $0.50

    XMan90 folds

    Defriender folds

    *** 4TH STREET ***

    Dealt to jbrennen [8d Ac 7c] [Kh]

    Dealt to Zydrounas [As] [4c]

    Zydrounas bets $0.50

    jbrennen calls $0.50

    *** 5TH STREET ***

    Dealt to jbrennen [8d Ac 7c Kh] [Jc]

    Dealt to Zydrounas [As 4c] [4s]

    jbrennen checks

    Zydrounas checks

    *** 6TH STREET ***

    Dealt to jbrennen [8d Ac 7c Kh Jc] [2h]

    Dealt to Zydrounas [As 4c 4s] [Kd]

    jbrennen bets $1

    Zydrounas raises to $2

    jbrennen has 15 seconds left to act

    jbrennen raises to $3

    Zydrounas raises to $4

    jbrennen calls $1

    *** 7TH STREET ***

    Dealt to jbrennen [8d Ac 7c Kh Jc 2h] [3c]

    jbrennen bets $1

    Zydrounas calls $1

    *** SHOW DOWN ***

    jbrennen shows [8d 3c 7c Kh Jc 2h Ac] (8,7,3,2,A)

    Zydrounas mucks

    jbrennen wins the pot ($12.45) with 8,7,3,2,A

    *** SUMMARY ***

    Total pot $12.95 | Rake $0.50

    Seat 1: Bownser folded on 3rd St.

    Seat 2: Yossarian57 folded on 3rd St.

    Seat 3: noel926 folded on 3rd St.

    Seat 4: jbrennen showed [8d 3c 7c Kh Jc 2h Ac] and won ($12.45) with 8,7,3,2,A

    Seat 5: XMan90 folded on 3rd St.

    Seat 6: Defriender folded on 3rd St.

    Seat 7: gilmanc folded on 3rd St.

    Seat 8: Zydrounas mucked [6d 4d As 4c 4s Kd 2c] - K,6,4,2,A

    As you can see, the betting was capped on 6th street.

    Why was I reraising with a King and a Jack on the board? Because I know I'm ahead at this point. For all I know, Zydrounas may be drawing to a wheel, but if he pairs on 7th street, or catches a Queen, my hand can win as is. I'm drawing to an 8-high, which is not a bad hand. Even if he catches a 9 on 7th street, I've got a bunch of outs.

    Checking the odds later, I believe I calculated that my worst case scenario is if he is holding 8-2 in the hole, in which case I'm about 47% to win. But even if I knew that to be the case, I'd still consider reraising. By capping the betting on 6th street, I figure that he will probably put me on a made Jack high, probably drawing to a 7 high, and that may cause him to forego a reraise on 7th street if he makes an 8, 9, 10, or Jack. Regardless of what I catch on 7th street, I'm betting out, and if he has me beaten, I'd prefer that he just call rather than reraise. So by making the extra 2 bets on 6th street, that may be a slightly -EV play by itself, but if it saves me an extra bet on 7th street, it's worth it.

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      CommentAuthorSaint Cad
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2005
     

    jbrennen, you raise a good point. When I see someone tight raise after third street get an A or 2 on 4th street, I play it like they just paired. A reraise may knock them off their hand if 5th or 6th street doesn't help them.

  6.  

    I have read this thread a few times, and the answer finally hit me. You ask why would you re raise on 3rd when you don't have the best up card. Let's say my opponent is showing a 6 and I am showing an 8. Let's say my hand looks like this (4h 5d) 8c. My opponent holds this (3s 2c) 6d. The other cards on the board were qc td 4s 5s 4c 5h. Most players who had the 6 3 2 would think they have the best hand. Wrong! Well sort of, while the 6 3 2 is a better hand at the moment, this is not 3 card razz. My 8 4 5 is actually a favorite. If I am holding a hand that is the favorite and looks to my opponent to be the underdog, then I am reraising with the hopes that he reraises me back. Raising with the worse hand will seem like a real donkey move to everyone at the table, but little do they know I am actually the favorite.

    Remember always count the dead cards. That's what makes a winning razz player.

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      CommentAuthorSaint Cad
    • CommentTimeDec 22nd 2005
     

    A few ideas:

    Like any limit game, some people want to get as many chips into the pot as possible when they think they have a good hand.

    They may want the person think that they have A-2 in the hole and that they have the advantage over all 7 cards.

    Aggressive play throws people off their games in Razz. I've had people question me when I bet (not reraise) an 8 high into an apparent 9 high like it's a bad play.

    I have a ton of chips and you have only a few so I can play to catch cards and you can't.

    I hit the wrong button.

  8.  

    Very informative,

    thanks.

    Quick question for you. Could you point me to a resource that could give me examples of % to win in razz like the explanation you have at the end? Like a certain book or a URL.

    Thanks again,

    Witheredeyes

  9.  

    Any time I know for an absolute fact that I'm ahead in the hand, I am betting and raising until it's capped. Here's why:

    I always want to get the most money as possible in the pot with the best hand. In Razz, I can be counterfeited or beat on the very next card, and I want my opponent to pay through the nose for that card.

    If I have (A,5) 2-6

    And villain has (X,X) 7-3

    I can even put him on A2 in the hole, for a perfect 7, and know that my hand, currently, is the nuts. Maybe he can outdraw me, but again, I want him to pay to do it.

    Additionally, I want to force my opponent to make as many decisions as possible in the course of the game. If I'm calling with the best hand, he's not forced into that position where he has to make those decisions, and I want him to do that so he is the least at ease as possible.

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      CommentAuthorJaconda78
    • CommentTimeMar 1st 2006
     

    If you have A234 and the other person is showing 68, your draw is clearly superior to his. Even if he shows something like A6, I would reraise. As long as my draw is better than his, and I am a favorite in the hand (or have good reason to think that he will A) fold or B) not bet into me on a later street with a bigger bet, meaning that I can buy myself a free card), I will bet out. Fortune and poker both favor the bold.

1 to 9 of 9

  1.  

Why reraise?